Gun Club

[Itrigued]

Dear AZUSA RESIDENT, I like what you have to say! You sound like a very intelligent person. Do you live in Mountain Cove? Are you a male? Are you married? If so please tell me more. Thank you.

[AmericanSoldier05]

Fed Up,
Interesting how you point out ATF "laws" since the ATF doesn't make laws first off and secondly, you can sell firearms without a background check, wait and see what I put about pistols before you start your eye-rolling. You can sell rifles, ammo etc. without the ATF or anyone else being involved. I can walk into a local gun shop and do this and all they do is call a special number that puts them into contact with the state police just to see if you have any warrents out for you, that is a federal law. The reason why you can sell without the kind of background checks, you are obviously talking about, is because background checks are only for pistols, and depending on the dealing license involved you don't always have to do a 5 day waiting period. If the people buying them are law enforcement or military, active duty that is, they don't have to have a waiting period at all.

You point out registering sales, interesting how you say they didn't register their sales but you seem to forget that they don't have to register their sales for anything but tax purposes. Any business that didn't keep records of it's sales and transactions wouldn't last very long or say 60 years. In that regard, they only actually need four numbers: the number that was paid for the weapon by them originally, a tracking number from where the weapon originally came from, what they sold it we for, and a serial number. The buyer fills out a form in which you sign the bottom stating that if any of the info on it is proven false you give them permission to throw you in jail for 5 to 10. They don't have to describe the weapon being sold unless, it is a Class 3 firearm aka fully automatic.
It's interesting also, how you point out they violated ATF regulations, yet they haven't been charged by the ATF, or anyone else, for any such violations. Like I said name one law they have actually violated. Maybe you should actually review current ATF firearms regulations and federal/state gun laws first next time.

As for taking in the gun club, we already have one nearby that has been there for about 60 years or so When not there I can go to the base range, if I can get in because it's usually very crowded. ;D

Azusa Resident,
First off insulting me isn't going to help your case and when you stop smiling and start shouting and insulting others you automatically lose the debate First rule of any debate class: Never lose your cool. I may not agree in any way with many on here but I have yet to personally insult anyone on here maybe you should try it sometime.

That aside, you do own your land and when the gunclub starts shooting on YOUR land or starts shooting towards your land, you can use that as an excuse to get rid of it, I would support you in that case because that would be completely wrong. Since it isn't that isn't a viable argument.

Also, you say I will never understand the reason the city council is rezoning the area but can you tell me when you have been able to figure out why a politician does anything? The usual excuse is for the votes, or because they want to make themselves look good etc. all that ends up catering to votes in the end. Other than that, I think pretty much all politicians are nuts and live on another planet and I am pretty sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

You claim I am narrowminded yet I have said I'm not advocating gun rights directly here, I have said this argument is just one small battle in a much much larger argument about guns in this country. Most here would disagree because they either don't want to acknowledge the truth of what I say or they honestly can't see how this one seemingly small argument could possibly impact such a larger issue. Either way it does. But I can say with a clear concious that I have been advocating for the rights of the gunclub nothing more.

Many on here have said this and that about "their" rights and "their issues" and this and that. Sounds to me like that kind of argument/thinking is all centered around...them. Tell me how that can't be described as narrowmindedness? If I'm narrowminded in supporting the gunclub then I can just as easily say that you, yes YOU Azusa Resident, are narrowminded and will only see things they way you want it, to borrow part of your attack on me. Some of you have at least attempted to respond to my questions but have yet, this will be the fourth or fifth time I have asked this, to tell me how trampling the rights of another i.e. the gun club helps protect the rights of others? If you can trash their rights and kick them out then what if someone decided to kick you out? What if they said, "Well that guy is a problem because I don't like the way he talks." or "I don't like how his kids make all that noise in the yard when playing." What if the city agreed with that person or persons and kick you out? Suddenly, you would not be such a fan of crushing the rights of another to suit your own views would you? I thought not.

Azusa Resident I really hope you think hard about how you advocated against another's rights because one day you might find yourself on the receiving end. What goes around comes around is a very true statement and what you do unto others usually comes back to kick you in the ass. I'm sure I'm not alone on this board in having that kind of experience in my life either. And this isn't a personal attack but it is a strong response to your suggestion that I, "...quit your crying soldier! suck it up..." comment which I laughed at

I have the distinct feeling from the emotion you showed in your response and the words you chose to use that you have probably never actually had to defend yourself, much less anything bigger than yourself like your country. Maybe you could do me a favor and go out and fight for something bigger than you like your nation or even your community and put your life on the line. I have bled for my country and have the scars and Purple Hearts to prove it. I have dedicated my life to something much more important and much bigger than myself, so much so that I have almost given my life for it several times now. Please watch who you tell to "stop crying" and to "suck it up" too since I have a feeling you have no idea the hell I have been through to preserve the rights you take advantage of everyday and use to attack the rights of others i.e. the gun club, everyday. And Azusa Resident, do me the favor of not trying to throw me out and violate my rights like you obviously are ready to do to the gun club, because as you pointed out about land ownership, I own mine.

With that said, my thanks to those who read this, and even if you couldn't disagree with me more and felt like strangling me at times , my thanks to those that were polite and cool-headed when responding to me and others on here because that is what keeps a debate lively and civil.

[gv]

After the gun club closes, gun owners will still be able to practice their shooting their guns. They will just have to do it at another club. In the mean time, they still have 18 months more that they can practice here.

I'm thankful that the City Council has supported closing the club. Children should not have to grow up thinking that hearing gun fire on a daily basis is normal. I'm not just thinking about my kids, I'm thinking about all of the children that live in this area. I'm looking forward to taking more walks and bike trips with my family after the club has been closed, enjoying the natural beauty of the area, including the sounds of nature, without hearing the constant booming noises.

[is this over]

well I must say that I have been very intrigued by all this debate. Azusa resident, I must say I am pretty disgusted with some of your statements, especially the one about "sorry soul" and owning a firearm. You are obviously not happy with the fact that it appears as though American Soldier had a little more "Firepower"
and facts THAN YOU! I think where you lost the debate was when you started preching gun control! God forbid you find yourself in a situation wher your sorry soul would need a gun! Although I think it is wrong what has been done to the gun club, the people have spoken, and no matter how hard people try, I know I will never lose my right to own and enjoy my guns!! I salut you soldier!!!!!

[Are You Who You Say You Are]

Hey "American Soldier", Which I think is a pussy title tailored for appreciation or attention. Your postings sound alot like Tekmann's! Do you two collaborate? Or is that you?

[FEDUP]

American Soldier,
The ATF violations do exist. However, I don't think it's worth arguing that point because that is only the cherry on top. The real issue is that Azusa residents have spoken. We do not want them here! So if you do have one of these nuisances in you town why don't you stay there and practice your hobby while the rest of us in Azusa live our everyday lives in peace like we are entitled to. Yes, that is our right and it overides yours to have fun at our expense. And I do hope our politicians listen to their constituents because that is what they are supposed to do. Any of them who do not, do not deserve to be representing our town or our people. We, the people of Azusa have spoken, and we will speak at the next election and the next one and so on, we refuse to be bullied any longer. Amen!

[tekmann]

Guest-gv said:

I'm looking forward to taking more walks and bike trips with my family after the club has been closed, enjoying the natural beauty of the area, including the sounds of nature, without hearing the constant booming noises.

If it's "natural beauty" that you're concerned about, one can only observe that there was more "natural beauty" in the area before someone decided to turn the area into yet another housing development...

[UPDATE]

On Monday February 7th there will be a meeting at the city council chambers at 7:00 P.M. The city council wil be voting on the re-development plan including the gun club issue. At the last meeting the city attorney informed the council that the gun club had no case and if taken to court the city would easily win. It is very important that every resident of the communities affected by this nuisance come to the meeting to let the city council know that we, the residents they are there to represent, are in agreement with their decision to rezone the gun club. They (the gun club) are not the only ones affected by the re-zoning. There are many other businesses that are also affected. They are just the only ones that are crying about it although they have already had 57 years to disturb the peace of everyone who lives in this area. Please come to support our city council and please vote for those candidates who have shown they would support the residents of Azusa in this matter. If they are against the residents on this issue it is clear to see they would not support the residents on other issues. Please make your vote count so that our voices( the residents of Azusa) may be heard.
VOTE! ;D

[HOMER]

Guest-tekmann said:

If it's "natural beauty" that you're concerned about, one can only observe that there was more "natural beauty" in the area before someone decided to turn the area into yet another housing development...

Tekman, I agree with you DAMN THOSE COVERED WAGON PIONEERS! YEE HAW

[Mirador Resident]

I found this site today and thought I would check it out. I started reading all the posts and decided to not respond until I read them all........until I got to post 98:

Why did you buy a house in Mountain Cove if you knew the gun club was already there? [/i]

Why? because you have no idea what it is really going to be like until you live with it 7 days a week 8.5 hours a day!! It's as simple as that!

We're not talking recreation shooting here either. e are talking automatic weapons, military gun fire, etc.

As far as signing anything, the only thing that we signed was an acknowledgement that it was there. It did not say we couldn't complain, it did not say we could do something about it.

I have been dealing with the city since August 1999. There have been sound studies done, at least three. There have been recommendations made, and for 6 years the Gun Club has been thumbing their nose at all of the requests. Now they are screaming foul and acting like the wounded party....pun intended!

I have never, ever trid to get the gun club shut down. I only wanted some sound measures put in place. Well now it's too late as far as I'm concerned, I am not going to live with it any longer.

A couple of weeks ago the gun club was closed for almost a week because of the rains.....it was the most wonderful week since I bought my house!

One other comment. My husband is a retire Police Sergeant and now works for the Federal Marshals....keyword FEDERAL. They will no longer rent the gun club for officers training as it is too expensive!

Now, I will continue reading.......

[Mirador Resident]

Guest-FEDUP said:

As far as the tribune letters are concerned... I wrote in with a pretty good letter if I say so myself with the view of most of our residents and they did not print it. I also know of at least 2 others who did the same and their letters were also ignored. It seems obvious to me that whoever is in charge of deciding which letters get printed must be on the gun club's side as most of the letters are from their point of view.

Ya think??

I have written a couple of letters and not one was printed. Only the pro gun club not so highly intelligent letters are printed. Oh wait! Maybe that's a good thing.

[Mirador Resident]

AmericanSoldier05 said:

This is a sad state of affairs when a small group of gun haters decide to jump on a bandwangon and try to once again destroy a fundamental American right. I know what I'm going to say here is going to give me grief from many but someone has to say the truth since so many on here obviously don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

Oh horse hockey!! My husband is a retired Police Sergeant and a gun owner and this has nothing to do with anyone's right to bear arms or about gun haters for petes sake!

I am a gun owner and a soldier and comparing the noise of the gunclub to a warzone would make me laugh, if I hadn't already been in combat and seen the real thing. The fact that someone would use such a poor analogy is in and of itself a joke especially since that person has never seen combat, pray you never have too.

Do you live up here?

You knew there might be noise when you agreed to live here and signed a disclosure for it. Some on here claim that just because you signed the disclosure that it doesn't matter and a club that has been there for over 60 years has to go because you don't like the fact that you are hearing gunshots. Gunshots you were told, and agreed to live with, might be there.

The disclosure was that we were aware it was there. It stated nothing about how we could not do anything about it!

This noise complaint nonsense and is just a blind. The fact remains that a few liberal residents just don't like having guns around, whether they cause a problem or not. Noise is just an excuse and I for one am not fooled by the rhetoric many on this board are using to mask the true reasons for this attack on a legitimate business and the rights of it's owner, those that use the facility and freedom as a whole. Those who are just jumping onto the bandwagon should be ashamed of themselves. This is one soldier who wants his children to grow up in the same free America that he got from his parents.

Hey pal, I am a Moderate Conservative, and again, this has nothing to do with 2nd Amendment rights, gun haters. It has to do with NOISE POLLUTION.......period!

[tekmann]

Guest-Mirador said:

I found this site today and thought I would check it out. I started reading all the posts and decided to not respond until I read them all........until I got to post 98:

Why did you buy a house in Mountain Cove if you knew the gun club was already there?

[/i]

Why? because you have no idea what it is really going to be like until you live with it 7 days a week 8.5 hours a day!! It's as simple as that!

One other comment. My husband is a retire Police Sergeant and now works for the Federal Marshals....keyword FEDERAL. [/quote]

Yet neither of you were aware of the fact that guns go "bang"?

[UPDATE]

Mirador Resident,
Welcome to our site. It's good to hear from someone in one of the other neighborhoods that are affected by this nuisance. I realize your neighborhood and some of the others have been dealing with this issue for a very long time. Thanks to a brave city council it looks like this situation is finally going to be addressed. Please come to tonight's meeting if at all possible. They are going to allow some public speaking on this subject and your input is really important as the gun club advocates are trying to make this a Mountain Cove vs the gun club issue. This is obviously not the case. You don't need to say much if you don't want to, just tell the council thank you for listening ( finally ) to their constituents. See you there! ;D

[Fedup]

Tekkman,
Yes, guns go bang, but, as Dylan once said, the times they are a changin. And you guys are out. So go find a spot in your city ( maybe your backyard? ) and ask them if they will let you practice your hobby there. Somehow I doubt you will be successful but if you are please take all your buddies with you.

[the vote is in]

The city council voted on 2/7/05, 5 to 0, supporting the residents of Azusa, voting to rezone the land that the gun club sits on.

The zoning would require that they leave within 18 months. They would be aloud to request an extension of a maximum of 10 years. The request would need to be made at least a year ahead of time. A development agreement, which is also probably unlikely, could override this decision.

[Mirador]

They really messed themselves up with all the threats, as far as PR. About any law suits, I doubt very much if they can sue the city as they don't even own the land! Vulcan owns the land!

I am extremely disappointed in Diane Chagnon too. After all this time she discovered a family member owns property "up there"? Up there where? All that proprty is owned by Vulcan or the county........Or is it because she's running for Mayor?

[HEEHEEHEE]

I'm just too damn happy about this! ;D I don't know what else to say .....except umm, bye bye tekky ! Hopefully you have learned a little something by now, although I think that youre too stubborn and hard headed to accept anything that doesnt go your way ! Well, on that note, I hope to never hear from you again, but for some reason I doubt that! See Ya later tekky!

[UPDATE]

The reason that Dianne and Madrid abstained from the vote on the map portion is that their respective parents/family owns property in certain zones they where voting on and this could cause a conflict of interest. This was the reason they were not able to vote last time since Joe Rocha was absent due to his accident. However, they did both both vote on the re-develoment plan. It was a little confusing as it seemed to go quite fast there at the end. It is still of the upmost importance that we are very careful about who we put on the city council. Please do not vote for anyone of the candidates who supported the gun club. They clearly do not have the residents best interests at heart.
Talking about candidates, I was impressed to see Uriel stand up with us when the mayor asked who was there
against the gun club. Way to go Uriel! ;D

[Abstain doesnt sound right]

Chagnon claimed that she was abstaining because she ''may'' (?!?) inherit some ominous property that's in some unspecified proximity to the gun club's ..... and even more oddly, that she didn't discover this until just the last council meeting. Abstaining because you ''may, one day in the future'' acquire a property that's ''somehwhere'' around the gun club? Her own house is less than one block away from the Monrovia Nursery development, yet she was okay with voting on that. - ? It all sounds suspiciously vague and inconsistent...... and seeing how she's getting loads of campaign contributions from the Vulcan mountain mining and other developer groups, I worry about her sincerity when it comes to working for the people and not these businesses..... gun club included. She's certainly scoring less and less points with me.

[tekmann]

Guest-HEEHEEHEE said:

I'm just too damn happy about this! ;D I don't know what else to say .....except umm, bye bye tekky ! Hopefully you have learned a little something by now, although I think that youre too stubborn and hard headed to accept anything that doesnt go your way ! Well, on that note, I hope to never hear from you again, but for some reason I doubt that! See Ya later tekky!

Oh, there was nothing to learn. You clearly haven't been paying attention, but I wrote back on December 16 (page 6, post # 85) that "I expect you'll win your battle with the gun club because money talks and politicians are greedy."

Politicians will almost always side with crybabies who move into an area and want to reshape it in their image as long as the crybabies cough up a lot of money in the form of property taxes.

But Karma's a funny thing; it's all on the wheel, and it all comes around. One day the city will make a decision that favors some other newcomer over yourself and you'll be bitterly outraged.

[Mirador]

All those arguments about being here first, yada yada yada, just doesn't cut it. There was some inane comment that was made during all of this. I don't know if I read it or it was said at a meeting. Something about Aerojet testing rockets and no one said anything.... Ya wanna bet? Why do you think they don't/can't do it anymore? Pollution, noise and air!

But the best one last night, and probably my all time favorite. Azusa will now have the distinction of being a city against Homeland Security.........no wait, it was the one where Azusa will now be responsible for the military not having the proper training. Gosh, I can't remember cause I kept falling off my chair in fits of laughter!!

And incase some think the sound pollution on Mirador is the same as Mountain Cove, let me set you straight. I could see that the duck tower was on it's side from the flooding WITHOUT binoculars!

[FEDUP]

Mirador Resident,
I know what your mean! It was pretty comical. I can't decide which moment was my favorite, the part about Mountain cove being on land that will either be swallowed up or covered by a landslide or the part where their "PR" guy lost his cool . Of course the part of where all those people from San dimas, Pasadena, Covina, West Covina, El Monte, etc. went up to say the nonesense they said was pretty funny too. And could you believe all the costumes? The guy with the Abe Linlcon Hat was very original! I didn't know we where supposed to wear costumes otherwise I would have worn my diaper and baby bottle since we are supposed to be a bunch of cry babies! Well bottom line is we got the last laugh any way you want to cut it. ;D

[HEEHEEHEE]

Guest-tekmann said:

Oh, there was nothing to learn. You clearly haven't been paying attention, but I wrote back on December 16 (page 6, post # 85) that "I expect you'll win your battle with the gun club because money talks and politicians are greedy."

Politicians will almost always side with crybabies who move into an area and want to reshape it in their image as long as the crybabies cough up a lot of money in the form of property taxes.

But Karma's a funny thing; it's all on the wheel, and it all comes around. One day the city will make a decision that favors some other newcomer over yourself and you'll be bitterly outraged.

WAAA , How did I know that you just wouldnt give up?! Hey tekky ,If you"expected we would win." you must not have heard the term "If you can't beat'em, join'em!"Okay tekky, level with me! If money talks and politicians are greedy then why did they not side with the mighty , wealthy N.R.A that backed you gunclubbers with your threats of lawsuits? It seems to me that the only ones crying are you sniveling dorks with your pompous attitudes of entitlement! , and Oh yeah Karma is a funny thing; it's all on a wheel, and it all comes around! Well youre right for a change. The wheel has come back around, in your face, for the last 58 years of your loud, annoying, noise pollution! HA HA it's a real funny thing ;D So like I said before, and yes I will say it again, Ihope that I dont have to hear from you again. You've lost the battle! You've lost the war! Saionara, try tomorra, nice ta know ya!

[Seriously]

Seriously, Xavier Hermosillo sucks!

[sucks]

ya, he does suck!sucks down way too many chilidogs!

[FEDUP]

I'm really not happy with the window they ( the city council) left open for them. There is no way that they can abate the noise, pollution, and potential danger of a stray bullet without enclosing the whole thing. I understand that enclosure is just not something they are willing to consider, so why make them think there is any hope for them? They are really better off using their money to find another place (city) that will let them use them like they have been using us. They might be able to get a city down by Temecula or something to let them set up shop. There are still some remote areas out that way. But here there is no hope for them.

[Barcelona]

Where's Mountain Cove California?

I thought you guy's were in the City of Azusa?

[Jen]

Of course we live in Azusa. No one is trying to deny that. If you look on the first page of this web site, you will see tons of links to resources for us, the residents of Azusa. However, Mountain Cove, California is still accurate. It is not an uncommon practice for large developments to use either the city name or the development name. For example Phillips Ranch is not a city, it is a development within Pomona. Morgan Ranch is not a city. It is a development within Glendora. And if you do some reseach, you will find that people do it all over the country. It is just for fun and it also provides a little more privacy.

[Barcelona]

Does this mean that you don't want to be associated with Azusa?

Kinda of dumb if you ask me. You live a community within the City of Azusa, which in general terms is $&!#, and you feel that changing your name to the "Development" provides you security?

I'm lost on this one.