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Post by SNIVELING DORK MCR on Dec 10, 2004 17:58:54 GMT -8
Mrs Trummel,
I have spoken to your neighbors and they have told me they arent going to lose any sleep when the gun club is gone. We are not protesting or suing, we are supporting our city elected officials. Who are trying to improve the standard of living of its residents. In fact the gun club is the only one has has threaten with litigation. You are obviouslyy a gun club member, God bless you for you support of the club, but your arguements are weak. The time has come for the residents of Azusa to take back their city. I got an idea why dont you move it behind Brookridge in Fish Canyon, or Glendora, Arcadia or even Bradbury, Im sure that since the club is such an asset to the community they will welcome you with open arms. Ok well have a good weekend enjoy the noise while last, pollute the enviroment while you still can. ;D
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Tired of Sucking it Up
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Post by Tired of Sucking it Up on Dec 10, 2004 18:00:20 GMT -8
Trummel,
The gun club's arguments are very weak. Bottom line is " people, businesses, and organizations that disregard the obligation to not interfere with other's use and enjoyment of the commons by producing lead and noise pollution are, in many ways acting like a bully in a school yard. they are claiming for themselves rights that are not theirs. They are putting this pollution into the commons without our consent. They might have yours, Trummel, but they don't have mine or many of my neighbors.
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Post by tekmann on Dec 14, 2004 4:25:25 GMT -8
SNIVELING DORK MCR writes, "I got an idea why dont you move it behind Brookridge in Fish Canyon, or Glendora, Arcadia or even Bradbury, Im sure that since the club is such an asset to the community they will welcome you with open arms."
Your logic is defective; you're suggesting that the gun club be moved to where people already live. But people in Mountain Cove inserted themselves in an area where the gun club had already existed for more than half a century. If you purchased a home in the approach pattern of an airport, would you insist that the airport be closed down?
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Post by tekmann on Dec 14, 2004 8:37:32 GMT -8
- on Dec 9th, 2004, 8:09pm, Guest-Fedup wrote:If God should decide that we should someday be washed away so be it,"
- mwtrummel replied, "It's not up to God, it's up to Mother Nature and whatever people conveniently overlooked the "100 year flood" planning. If the
Mountain Cove-ers spent as much time researching the recent history of their little "cove" they would find that they have a much greater chance of being washed downstream than they do of some spurious "noise" or "pollution" complaint related to the non-PC 'Evil Gun
Club'".
This is true. There's a reason why certain areas are called "flood plains". While visiting some friends in Hillsboro, OR in 1980, I saw a large expanse of undeveloped land while standing on their second-floor deck. I was told that this lowlying land was a flood plain and could never be built upon. On a later visit, some seven years later, I was surprised to look down on the roofs of a large housing development. My friend laughed and said they'd already suffered severe flood damage a year or two earlier.
I recall a similar circumstance back in the sixties or seventies when people insisted on building hillside homes in Malibu and Pacific Palisades. The county engineers had always maintained that houses should never be built on such dangerous ground. Would-be buyers and developers sued and won the right to build there. Come the next rainy winter, many of the homes predictably washed down to the bottom of the cliffs. And what happened? Why the homeowners sued everybody in sight and won! Many of them rebuilt in the same locations.
So when the sad day comes that gentle writer Fedup's home washes away or at least suffers severe damage, will he or she be so complacent with the results of "God's decision" or will there be a flurry of lawsuits...?
- Fedup later writes, "As far as Christian principles go I don't think it's very Christian of you to wish a whole community be washed down so that a few people
can enjoy their hobby."
Please feel free to point out where anyone WISHED you to be washed down the river. The author merely pointed out that such things have happened in this area before and will undoubtedly happen again.
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Post by FEDUP on Dec 14, 2004 13:12:56 GMT -8
Whatever, it doesn't matter because you guys are out, out, out! So go soak your head! ;D
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Post by GUNGUY on Dec 14, 2004 14:00:55 GMT -8
Dear, Tekmann Maybe no body "WISHED" any one to be washed down the river, but I wish that you would shut up  |
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Post by PickleSmoker on Dec 14, 2004 14:10:44 GMT -8
Grow up"GUNGUY"
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Post by GUNGUY on Dec 14, 2004 14:12:07 GMT -8
F .U. HOWS THAT FOR GROWIN UP!
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Post by PickleSmoker on Dec 14, 2004 14:13:12 GMT -8
Whatever!  |
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Post by GUNGUY on Dec 14, 2004 14:17:14 GMT -8
Dear "Pickle Smoker", Nice name by the way! Tell me are you a Mtn. Cove resident?
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Post by PickleSmoker on Dec 14, 2004 14:18:19 GMT -8
I said whatever!  |
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Post by SNIVELING DORK MCR on Dec 14, 2004 14:21:53 GMT -8
TEKMAN,
I' m glad we have a logistics reviewing this issue. And maybe you could explain the logic of "that we were there first". Let's see, the gun club argues they were there first , so anyone that moves in that area must put up with any noise or pollution they cause. Well maybe you could explain how the City of Azusa was there before the gun club, so therefore they can tell the gun club what they allow and dont allow in there city limits? Or before the city of Azusa this land was occupied by Mexico, Should Mexico tell what the city of Azusa should do about the gun club? Gee I guess we could never stop until we got to God? So if you have more logic to share please think it thru. Ding! frys are done everyone back to work including you tekman
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Post by tekmann on Dec 15, 2004 4:52:41 GMT -8
Dear, Tekmann Maybe no body "WISHED" any one to be washed down the river, but I wish that you would shut up I see that, unable to counter the facts presented, you've offered a stunningly intellectual reply... |
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Post by tekmann on Dec 15, 2004 4:59:56 GMT -8
TEKMAN, I' m glad we have a logistics reviewing this issue. And maybe you could explain the logic of "that we were there first". Let's see, the gun club argues they were there first , so anyone that moves in that area must put up with any noise or pollution they cause. Well maybe you could explain how the City of Azusa was there before the gun club, so therefore they can tell the gun club what they allow and dont allow in there city limits? Or before the city of Azusa this land was occupied by Mexico, Should Mexico tell what the city of Azusa should do about the gun club? Gee I guess we could never stop until we got to God? So if you have more logic to share please think it thru. Ding! frys are done everyone back to work including you tekman "Should Mexico tell what the city of Azusa should do?" No, they'd be more likely to solve the problem by shooting you. "Until we got to God"? Certainly an entity with whom you sound distinctly unfamiliar. And about those fries; it's nice to see that at least you're concerned about your job. So how do any of your remarks have anything to do with somebody who's just moved in trying to take over the longrunning show? Aside, that is, from just being obvious attempts to justify an unethical position? Curious minds want to know! |
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Post by tekmann on Dec 15, 2004 5:03:47 GMT -8
F .U. HOWS THAT FOR GROWIN UP! Indeed. It speaks for itself.  |
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Post by GUNGUY on Dec 15, 2004 10:08:42 GMT -8
HEY TEKMANN, I WASNT EVEN TALKING TO YOU WHEN I SAID THAT, SO KEEP YOUR IDIOTIC, ANNOYING, COMMUNIST MOUTH SHUT! DOUCHEBAG!
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Post by SNIVELING DORK MCR on Dec 15, 2004 11:17:53 GMT -8
TEKMAN,
Yet still no answer to your logic? How does "we were there first" justify polluting the air and ground. Maybe becuase there is no logical answewr ? So let make an ethical question instead? Ok why is is it unethical for a city, (that was there before the club) to listen to its residents and improve its community. Why is it unethical for a few select to burden others with their hobby merely becuase when they started there hobby the area was remote and now has grown. In a the holiday spirit why dont we just agree to disagree. And let process that we hold sacred in this country decide. Oh and far as the Mexicans shooting me, they might shoot you too, since they dont even allow its citizens to own guns so there wouldnt even be a gun club.Ok Tekman put your paper hat back on and give an apple pie with that.
I'm out , rack him
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Post by tekmann on Dec 15, 2004 11:52:05 GMT -8
TEKMAN, Yet still no answer to your logic? How does "we were there first" justify polluting the air and ground. Maybe becuase there is no logical answewr ? Or maybe because there's no evidence of pollution. Let's look a bit more closely into that environmental argument with a letter found the other day in the Tribune... "Your View", letter to the editor, SGV Tribune 10 December 2004 www.sgvtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,205%257E24946%257E2587357,00.html Environment argument doesn't fly In reading about fight over the future of the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club, I was moved to laughter. Somehow, the save the environment argument was brought out as a reason to close down the range. We are told that lead pollution of homes and the water of the nearby river are justification enough. Sorry, but that idea has huge problems. First of all the lead in bullets doesn't break down rapidly. In fact, shipwrecks that took place hundreds of years ago still have the lead balls used in muskets present. This after being submerged in salt water for all those years. Also, today's bullets are made up of several different metals and the analysis of ground water doesn't show those other metals that would be there if the bullets had dissolved. Our greatest lead contamination problem comes from the decades of using lead in gasoline. Tailpipe emissions have spread tons of fine lead dust all over this region and I suspect that it will be working its way into the ground water for many years to come. I have seen water quality reports from places that don't have shooting ranges in the area, listing lead in the water. Therefore, we are left with the realization that a few people who knowingly bought homes near a source of noise want it all. What will come next? Will they want those pesky coyotes and cougars killed off? We all know that they are a big problem to pet owners as well as known vandalizers of trash cans. Of course those raccoons will be trying to get into the attics of those fine homes, so they will have to go too. Sorry snakes, but you are doomed also. How about rezoning Mountain Cove to open space? This will let it be returned to animal habitat, which is what it should be. Otherwise how long will it be before the rest of us taxpayers have to pick up the bill for fighting a wild fire that threatens to burn the homes down? Since the land is in a flood plane, what cost will we pick up after one of those super wet rainy seasons that come every so often around here? Remember, it wasn't that long ago that Glendora had a huge amount of mud moving into the city. Here's an idea. Since we have all these people who want to live up in the mountains, let's give them the bill. I propose an added tax to those properties that will be used to pay for the specialized equipment like Super Scooper airplanes and firefighting helicopters that protect them. Some of the money could be put into an insurance fund to pay for their losses without hitting up the rest of us for the money. We could do this for beachfront properties too. As an after thought, I feel sorry for the businesses of Azusa. There will be news of the loss of this range spreading across the country and the gun owners can choose to not buy products from Azusa. Since there are companies that offer products and services to the outdoor enthusiasts the question must be asked if they will loose business? For myself, I will take my business elsewhere. Mike Kidd, Glendora |
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Post by FEDUP on Dec 15, 2004 14:36:05 GMT -8
No evidence of pollution? How about 20 tons of it is that enough for you? who are you anyways, their lame spoke person?
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Post by SNIVELING DORK MCR on Dec 15, 2004 14:44:43 GMT -8
So tekman, or Mike Kid , That s all you got huh? no reply to the other points? How do you explain Glendora homes in the hills? Or how do you feel the residents of Glendora would react to a gun club? Azusa will no longer be the redheaded stepchild of the foothill city. The gull you have. we are tired you crapping in our backyard. Wake up and smell the coffee TIMES CHANGE too bad. Botttom line is you cant handle growth and more is coming. So pack your bags
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Post by tekmann on Dec 15, 2004 14:58:14 GMT -8
So tekman, or Mike Kid , That s all you got huh? no reply to the other points? How do you explain Glendora homes in the hills? Or how do you feel the residents of Glendora would react to a gun club? Azusa will no longer be the redheaded stepchild of the foothill city. The gull you have. we are tired you crapping in our backyard. Wake up and smell the coffee TIMES CHANGE too bad. Botttom line is you cant handle growth and more is coming. So pack your bags I'm not Mike Kidd; I was merely quoting him. An intelligent person would have realized that. As for your other points - like the hilarious "our backyard" - I didn't respond to them because they were self-serving crybaby drivel with which you attempted to justify your position after the fact. And the real bottom line is... see y'all in Long Beach after the next rainy winter.  |
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Post by mwtrummel on Dec 15, 2004 16:41:35 GMT -8
TEKMAN, And maybe you could explain the logic of "that we were there first". Let's see, the gun club argues they were there first , so anyone that moves in that area must put up with any noise or pollution they cause. Well maybe you could explain how the City of Azusa was there before the gun club, so therefore they can tell the gun club what they allow and don't allow in there city limits? Mmm, you might want to do a little research into the history of this area. Believe it or not, it didn't start the day people started moving into Mtn Cove. Actually, the Evil Gun Club was on Federal land until just recently. Azusa never had any say in it's future until the gun club property was given to the city. I suspect some of the smarter cookies in Mtn Cove realized that the situation had changed and started stirring folks up and whispering in the ears (and perhaps pocketbooks ) of the City Council people. (and FWIW to the other posters, could you please try and keep your discussion civil? I would hope that we could agree to disagree without yelling and name-calling) |
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Post by SNIVELING DORK MCR on Dec 15, 2004 18:59:49 GMT -8
You stilll continue to provide no concrete arguement for the reason why the gun club has a Right to exsist over the City of Azusa's request to move it. You dont own the land, you lease it and guess what someday your lease will end. Or Vulcan will chose to do something different there. Will you argue with your landlord the same? Do you feel that you are above the law? Do honestly not care that your are bothering people everyday with your noise, let alone what harm you may have cuased to nature. Stop for a minute and try to remember when you shoot your guns, have your ears ever rung with the noise? Probably not becuase you where ear plugs or protective gear. Why do you wear protective gear? Why do you have this attitude that you are above change and development. Do You listen to the noise everyday!, everyday! everyday! except for mondays. Do you ever go home enjoy peace & quiet? Would you care if I disrupted you home peace and quiet constantly! Are you like countless people that dont care what effect your action has on others. I cant believe it. It might be a dream but I think you are people just like us and live your lives day to day and try to put up with all the hassles of everyday living. And try to go to bed at night an feel you did your best to try to make this place a better place to live.And before you all disect and quote and argue logically and ethically and morally all I said.
I ask you this do you care? Becuase if you dont, there shouldnt be any further discussion. But if you do and you are considerent of others, please know that people of Azusa are just like you and they just want some peace & quiet. I'm sorry if that is too much ask? And i'm sorry you wish a flood would end this problem but it wouldnt and it wont.
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Post by To A Better Azusa on Dec 16, 2004 7:03:46 GMT -8
I want to take a moment to thank the Azusa City Council for protecting my family and neighbors from lead poisioning and noise pollution.
I’m tired of being woken up in the mornings by the sound of gun fire. I heard that the gun club hired a public relations company, so they may temporarily begin to consider their neighbors while they try to fight to stay. At least that may give us a little break from them for now. So enjoy it while you can! The gun club is planning on having a lot of people at the next city council meeting on the 20th, at 7:30pm, at the city hall auditorium. I realize that this is the holiday season, but it is important to have people from the other side come to support the city council’s decision so that there is a balanced crowd. The gun club is saying that there are only a few neighbors that care about the lead poisoning (We do not need a super fund site next to Mountain Cove. Imagine what that would do to our property values.), noise pollution, and risk of fires from stray bullets. If you can make it, please come. Please add it to your calendar: December 20th, 7:30pm, city hall auditorium. Thank you.
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Post by tekmann on Dec 16, 2004 9:22:20 GMT -8
...The gun club is saying that there are only a few neighbors that care about the lead poisoning (We do not need a super fund site next to Mountain Cove. Imagine what that would do to our property values.), noise pollution, and risk of fires from stray bullets. Where is your evidence of lead poisoning? Why doesn't it show up in the land and in the river? And if there is lead poisoning, it would be a little late to be worrying about it now, after fifty-odd years of shooting. And of the many fires that have plagued the area over the years, how many have been caused by "stray bullets"? These are emotional, not factual, points and are geared to address what you've just let slip is your main concern; the belated worry about property values of a person who purchased a home with full knowledge of surrounding conditions that include not only the presence of the gun club but much more importantly the fact that that home is built in an area historically known for floods and fires. These are conditions you should have thought more deeply about before the purchase. In the short run, I expect you'll win your battle with the gun club because money talks and politicians are greedy. But in the long run, the point is moot because these homes are built where no homes should ever logically have been built. Your enemy isn't a gun club, it's Mother Nature. |
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Post by FEDUP on Dec 16, 2004 19:34:08 GMT -8
In the Star News on Monday April 5th 2004 there was a story done by Gary Scott about the City of Pasadena outdoor Police shooting range. It basically says that after a decade of complaints from nearby residents the city approved $1.9 million to enclose the range. It was a very long term problem for them. In 1996 a stray bullet struck a nearby house and another fell into some dry grass and sparked a fire. Another follow up article in the Star News on November 5th 2004 speaks of the completion of the state of the art range built to replace the dangerous outdoor one. These ocurrences are not just someone saying this could happen, it has happened! In Washington D.C The Violence Policy Center released a 71 page report documents how shooting ranges pollute the enviroment. I quote from this report " Every one of the 1,800. firing ranges in the U.S. represents a piece of land so highly contaminated with lead that it would require a massive clean-up effort to be safe for wildlife or any industrial or residential use" said EWG Research Director Jane Houlihan. This too is fact. Please don't speak on a subject without knowing what you are speaking about! I realize shooting is a lot easier to do than reading for some people but if you want to speak with some measure of authority you really need to read! And no money has nothing to do with it, common sense does and I thank god that we have intelligent people with common sense on the City Council who listen to their residents and not those who come to enjoy themselves at the expense of the families who live here. |
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Post by UPDATE on Dec 16, 2004 19:48:09 GMT -8
On Monday December 20th at the city council chambers at 7:30 P.M. there is going to be a meeting to adopt the new re-development plan. This plan includes the gun club amortization period of 18 months for them to leave and a new Star Bucks on the old Sav-on furniture lot. Please come to support your community and your city council by letting them know you approve of their decisions. They are trying to take Azusa into a new millinium. This has been very difficult, as many old timers do not want any progress in this town. Let's make our city equal to or better than our neighbors Glendora and Monrovia. Get involved! Last chance! ;D
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Post by tekmann on Dec 17, 2004 14:18:19 GMT -8
...The Violence Policy Center released a 71 page report documents how shooting ranges pollute the enviroment. I quote from this report " Every one of the 1,800. firing ranges in the U.S. represents a piece of land so highly contaminated with lead that it would require a massive clean-up effort to be safe for wildlife or any industrial or residential use" said EWG Research Director Jane Houlihan. This too is fact. Please don't speak on a subject without knowing what you are speaking about! I realize shooting is a lot easier to do than reading for some people but if you want to speak with some measure of authority you really need to read! And no money has nothing to do with it, common sense does and I thank god that we have intelligent people with common sense on the City Council who listen to their residents and not those who come to enjoy themselves at the expense of the families who live here. "This too is fact", as advocated by a left-wing anti-firearm site whose political slogan appears on its website www.vpc.org as "Ban Handguns Now". If all of the 1800 sites are so badly contaminated and presumably Azusa is one of them, then where is the evidence of all this pollution? How were your homes allowed to have been built on such supposedly treacherous land? Why hasn't any of this alleged pollution found its way down the river's path to the sea? You would be best advised to follow your own advice and "Please don't speak on a subject without knowing what you are speaking about". And don't believe everything that you read, just because it happens to support your agenda... |
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Post by Cover and Azusan BOTH on Dec 17, 2004 15:54:15 GMT -8
On Monday December 20th at the city council chambers at 7:30 P.M. there is going to be a meeting to adopt the new re-development plan. This plan includes the gun club amortization period of 18 months for them to leave and a new Star Bucks on the old Sav-on furniture lot. Please come to support your community and your city council by letting them know you approve of their decisions. They are trying to take Azusa into a new millinium. This has been very difficult, as many old timers do not want any progress in this town. I'm on the same side of the gun club issue as you, but I sure wish you wouldn't marginalize people like that. (The "many oldtimers" comment.) I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about, and it's divisive and narrowminded to pit newer residents against longer-time ones. Most of the "old-timers" I know, especially ones that live in the northern parts of town (earshot of the gun-club) agree with the decision. You might even be surprised at some of the faces who agree. (Like I know some people who were really vocal in opposing Monrovia Nursery, something that most Cove'rs really supported, and now they also want the gun club out. You see, now unlike before, we're on the same side of an argument. The difference is that I've always respected their opinions, and vice-versa). Opinions on things like these are not always black-or-white. We need to be careful not to stereotype residents or draw a line in the sand with the rest of the city. We are Mountain Cove, yes. But just as importantly, we are part of Azusa, too. |
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Post by UPDATE on Dec 18, 2004 13:54:18 GMT -8
Sorry, I didn't mean to cause division. What I meant is that there are some people who really find progress difficult. I totally respect people who have been here for years and appreciate their support in this issue. I think we can really make Azusa a great town with everyone's involvement. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! ;D
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