Gun Club

[Island Girl]

Yes the gun club is a business but sometimes a move is necessary in business,. Yes I signed that I knew about the noise, but not that I gave up my right to try to have it moved and vote against it. It is time for the club to move . Times change our rights do not.

[mtncovelover4]

As I clean my 50 cal rifles and my handguns that I am shooting tomorrow at the gun club, it strikes me as to why I bought a house here................

Because it is so close to the gun club. Saves gas and less time to drive to the gun club to shoot my 500 rounds tomorrow at daybreak........................ ;D

[Update]

I would like to thank all of you who attended last night's city council meeting and also those of you who wrote in. It's very important that the city council know our feelings regarding this issue. In case you were not able to attend I will do my best to update everyone.
The city council has unanimously voted to allow the gun club to continue for a time yet to be determined. They directed staff to overturn the planning commission's decision to make the gun club a conforming use. The city councill has asked that the zoning remain open space and the use would remain non-conforming & be amortized out in 5 years or less. This decision would be adopted when the development code, as a whole, is adopted.
What this means to us is a partial victory. They get to stay for a period of time yet to be determined.
We need to continue our letters, e-mails, and phone calls to let them know that we would like the amortization period to be as short as possible.
There were many gun club members at the meeting. They were mostly from other cities like Arcadia, Glendora and El Monte, only one from Azusa. Their best defense is that they have been there for many years and that if this club closes they would have to travel far to practice their hobby. Their suggestion to all of us is
"If you don't like it, move."
The reason they would have to travel far to continue their hobby is because no other city in this area would permit such a use in their city. Can you imagine Arcadia or Glendora having this kind of range in their back yard? I don't think so. Yet, they think we should let them come to our backyard and disturb our peace and pollute our city and if we don't like it, they have the gall, to tell us to move!
I don't know about you guys, but I made an investment in this city and I pay higher taxes to prove it because I think Azusa can be much more than it currently is. I don't take kindly to people from other cities telling me to move. How about we put it in their city?
Also another couple of interesting tidbits of information from a very reliable source: As a result of the current spotlight on the gun club, they have now done a little housecleaning, 20 tons of hazardous waste was recently removed form their rifle range. They still have to work on their pistol range though.
By the way, the south side or "old" pistol range had to be closed down last year due to a stray bullet straying into Vulcan's property and working area. Those guys got lucky it didn't find a body. What about the next one? Who's name does that bullet have on it?
Five years is too long! Write, call, e-mail the city council and let them know we are watching what happens and will take it into consideration when election time comes around. We, the residents of this city, deserve to be considered over the hobbiest that enjoy the gun club at our expense.

[mtncovelover4]

""city council has unanimously voted to allow the gun club to continue for a time yet to be determined.""

I take back everything I SAID! ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Update]

There will be a Azusa City Council workshop meeting regarding the re-development and proposed zone changes including the Gun Club on November 29th. This meeting will take place at the Azusa Light and Water conference room at 729 N. Azusa Ave at 6:30 P.M. The public will have an opportunity to speak. Please make it a point to be there if you would like to shorten the time the gun club will be allowed to operate. The city council will be making their final determenation in December. This will be the last opportunity we might ever have to be heard. If you can not attend please send your letters and e-mails. The gun club threartend to sue the city if they didn't see things their way. We need to support our city council to do the right thing for the residents of Azusa. Don't let the club members from other cities tell us how we should run our city. Be there!

[Foxtail]

It is kind of interesting, we were told of the noise polution but not the real polution that could be doing serious bodily injury to us. Getting rid of the club should be our top priority. The other day the noise was non stop, horrible. I do not know how many guns they could possibly have had there to make such a sound. If have heard this much noise several times. This is more than what we should be putting up with!!

The gun club is not an asset to Azusa!!!!

[whispering willow]

I totally agree! Other cities do not make their residents suffer like this. They just tell their gun hobbyists to come to pollute ours then tell us we should move if we don't like it. I'm all for people enjoying their hobbies but not at the expense of the residents' enjoyment of their own property. See todays' article in the Tribune. There is a meeting at the Light and Water department regarding this issue tonight. The city of Asuza has decided to let them stay for a limited timebut wants our input as to the time limit they should impose on them. Please let them know that we would like to enjoy our homes and beautiful surroundings as soon as possible. Thanks!

[update]

On November 29th all members ( except Mayor Madird as she was out of town) city council voted to allow the Gun Club 18 months to to move. The gun club has hired a public relations firm to try to work something out
(could it be an attorney told them they don't have a legal leg to stand on?) They are also threating a lawsuit against the city if they don't work something out. I'm not an attorney but I bet the city of Azusa has already looked into their legal rights to do what they are doing. Anyways, I applaud the city council for listening to all of the residents who have been complaining about this situation for over 10 years( yes, it has been a problem way before Mountain Cove came into existance.) However, we are still not out of the woods. They city council will again meet regarding this as well as other re-development issues on Dec. 6 at the city council chambers at 7:00 P.M. Please come to support your community! The council needs to see we support their dicision. By the way did anyone see the article in the tribune on November 30th? The picture speaks a thousand words doesn't it? Too close for comfort! Does anyone who lives in those houses pictured have an opinion?

[Foxtail]

A note to Kelly: Ya the gun club will be gone! Things change. We were not the first to complain but with our presence and a new development in the wings Azusa apparently has awakened to the knowledge that the "whole city" must be cleaned up. Apparently this council has a desire to improve the city for all not just a few (100 or so) users of the club. Also may we note that along with noise polution apparently the lead is even a greater risk to all including the water supply that runs beside. I am so happy, 18 months to go!!! Lets all look forward to Azusa continuing to improve. Thank you city council.

[Update]

Tonight is the night! City council chambers at 7:30 P.M. One more chance to let the city council know how we feel. They are under fire from the gun club and their out of town members who say that we should " suck it up or move" this is a direct quote from Stacey Donaldson ,gun club supporter, of La Verne in a recent editorial. When are they going to learn it's extremely arrogant of them to come to our city to cause a nuisance and pollute our lands and tell us to move if we don't like it. Not to mention come to our city and try to tell us how we should run our city? Even if you don't want to speak, we desperately need more residents to come support those who do. This is a once in our lifetime opportunity to improve our quality of life. Please join your neighbors in letting these folks know they can not come and push us around.

[MasterMind]

I have to say that I think it's a shame that the gun club must go, but it's their own fault. Let's first dispell the idea that because they have been here for a long time that they have some sort of special right to continue unabated. They don't.

The fact is that this has been coming for many years, and yet the club has done as little as possible to be a good neighbor. NOW that they are threatened with removal, they get rid of some toxic waste, plant a few trees and are "in discussions" to build a 20' sound burm? Way too little, way too late.

How long do YOU think it takes to accumulate 20 TONS of spent bullet slugs? They've done the bare minimum necessary to stay as long as they have. And now they threaten Azusa with a law suit. Good neighbors? Good riddence!

[Whispering Willow]

I agree! And the nerve that some of their members have to tell us that we should " suck it up or move " is unbelievable! What makes them think they can come to our city tell us how to run our city, pollute our land, create a nuisance and tell us to move?

[Bill]

I am thankful to the City Council for hearing the voices of Azusans over many years (5, 10, and 15 or more years) about the gun club noise AND acting on it. This is not just a "new resident" issue. The City of Azusa has grown, LA County has grown and an open air shooting range is no longer safe or appropriate in such close proximity to homes and a high-traffic bike trail. There are probably thousands of residents who hear the noise daily. No matter the exact number, too many people have their quality of life imacted now for the noise to continue as it has for the sake of the hobbies of 140 or so active gun club members. There are over 70 additional shooting ranges in Southern California alone, many of which are more professionally equipped for police and other training as well.

-Bill

[Whispering Willow]

Did anybody see the " your view" part of the newspaper ( Star News or Tribune) this morning? Are these people for real? this woman from upland says we are a bunch of " Whining, sniveling, dorks" because we don't agree with them coming to enjoy themselves at our expense. She also says we just want to sit inside our homes without hearing any noise. She couldn't be more wrong about us, the whole point of getting rid of the gun club is to enjoy the outdoors in peace and safety. Another guy from Florida calls the Gun club an " essential service" . Essential Service? I guess every city should have one then. I wonder why, then, as he himself mentions in his letter " Gun ranges are being sued out of existance"all over the country? Maybe we should send in some intelligent letters to the paper!

[Outside Looking In]

I learned to shoot at the SGVGC. I haven't been there in many years. That's the extent of my interest. I have to ask though,if you residents of Mountain Cove knew there was a gun club nearby, and that there would be noise, why did you buy a home there? From what I've read, it couldn't be because of the peaceful surroundings. Unless of course you were duped by your realtor.
What are you planning to do when the City of Azusa builds an outdoor music amphitheater on the property now occupied by the range? (San Gabriel Valley Tribune 11/21/04) Of course, if it's as polluted as some of you try to make out, the city won't be able put ANYTHING there.

[Rick]

The residents bought their homes for a lower price due to the gun club's existence. It will be a windfall for them when the gun club leaves. That is the real motivation here. I'm sure the club is noisy - but they knew that when they looked at the home in the first place.

They are residents of Azusa - most club members are not. That's the way it works.

[Whispering willow]

Rick, ( the one asking why we moved here)
Just like when most people buy their own homes there is always something you wish was different or you plan to remodel or change down the road. We liked everything else about our home except the gun range. I personally figured it would someday have to be phased out because of the proximity to so many homes not just Mountain Cove (other neighborhoods including Duarte have been complaining for about 15 years). The City of Azusa is going through a city wide re-development to improve the whole city. This is the same process that many cities have gone through on their way to becoming what they are now. Anyone remember Monrovia 20 years Ago? Anyways this gave all of us surrounding neighborhoods an opportunity to speak our peace. The city council has to take all of the comments into consideration when they make their decision. We Live here, raise our families here and pay some pretty steep property taxes here, I think our concerns should speak louder than those who come to our city to enjoy their past time at our expense then go home to their own cities who have long ago stopped permitting this type of use in their back yards. And by the way the thing about the ampitheater is something I'm not in agreement with. It doesn't make any sense to me to replace one noise producing entity with another. An enclosed gun range or ampitheater would be O.K with me.
"Our well being is enhanced when the commons( that which is held in common by the public, like the air noise travels on) is used to maximize opportunities for everyone, and degraded when the commons is used to maximize profits or opportunities for a few, or to maiximize only a few opportunities"

[WHISPERING WILLOW]

Rick, ( the one thinking we bought our homes at a lower price because of the gun club)
This is not true. Our homes were the most expensive homes Azusa had ever had. We also pay higher taxes than most homes as a result of a Mello Roos type assesment for the emprovements that our existance might impose on the city. Also, we bought our homes at the market value for the the area and city that we are located in. Azusa had very low over-all property values before Mountain Cove came into existance. As a matter of fact Azusa had one of the largest increase in property values as a result of the Mountain Cove home sales. Hopefully the re-development plan and the new Monrovia Nursery Project will put us on the road to someday being comparable to our neighbors of Glendora or Monrovia. But right now if you were to purchase the same home in either of these cities you would still, today, pay at least a third more just because of the city not because of the gun club. The gun club leaving, will, however, make a home easier to sell, more marketable. Any Real Estate Brokers have more on this?

[mwtrummel]

The gun club has been operating in it's current location since 1947/48. It was there when every one of you Mountain Cove-ers bought your houses. You were fully aware of it's existence when you moved into your houses, and now you decide you don't want it operating. Why is that? Do you consider yourselves "better" or "more worthwhile" than the people who use or work at the Gun Club, or better than the Law Enforcement organizations that use their facilities for training?

You are the same sort of people that would move into a house near a freeway or airport, then start complaining about the noise or pollution and how it impacts your important little lives.

I've lived in Duarte, about a half mile from the Evil Gun Club since the late '50's and it hasn't negatively impacted my life, even though I can hear the gunshots on Sat and Sun mornings.

BTW, are any of you Mountain Cove-ers aware of what happened to your land during the 1969-70 rains? I'll give you a hint: if we have rain like that again, you won't have to worry about your precious property values and quality of life in Azusa as your houses will be newly relocated down in Long Beach (were there's also a shooting range. Kind of ironic, eh?)

[Fedup]

Dear Mr. Trummel,
Are you really that un-educated and ignorant? You really should do a little reading and get yourself educated on the issue before you speak about a subject. Haven't you read any of the previous postings? They should answer all of your questions...or can you read? Our "little lives" as you call them are just as important as yours. It is ethically and morally incorrect to for them ( the gun club) to act as bullies by extending their private property rights to that which is publicly owned or cared for and not exclusively their own. In other words for those of you who didn't make it past third grade, they do not have the right to infringe on other people's rights by broadcasting their continous noise and polluting the land. It's called respecting each other's rights.
Also you sound like a very bitter and cold person. There are many families and chlidren living in this community and many of the adults are very altruistic individuals who are worth their weight in gold. If God should decide that we should someday be washed away so be it, at least I know most of the people I know would be in heaven. You ,sir, I have doubts about! Please do not come to pollute our web site with your venom, You are not welcomed!

[mwtrummel]

Guest-Fedup said:

Dear Mr. Trummel,
Are you really that un-educated and ignorant?

Ah, a little ad hominem, that certainly makes a good impression!

Guest-Fedup said:

Our "little lives" as you call them are just as important as yours.

How right you are! But you should also remember that they're not any more important than the people associated with the Evil Gun Club.

Guest-Fedup said:

It is ethically and morally incorrect to for them ( the gun club) to act as bullies by extending their private property rights to that which is publicly owned or cared for and not exclusively their own. In other words for those of you who didn't make it past third grade, they do not have the right to infringe on other people's rights by broadcasting their continuous noise and polluting the land. It's called respecting each other's rights.

And you rich landowners should respect their right to exist too. They have been there for over fifty years.

Guest-Fedup said:

If God should decide that we should someday be washed away so be it,

It's not up to God, it's up to Mother Nature and whatever people conveniently overlooked the "100 year flood" planning. If the Mountain Cove-ers spent as much time researching the recent history of their little "cove" they would find that they have a much greater chance of being washed downstream than they do of some spurious "noise" or "pollution" complaint related to the non-PC "Evil Gun Club".

Guest-Fedup said:

at least I know most of the people I know would be in heaven. You ,sir, I have doubts about! Please do not come to pollute our web site with your venom, You are not welcomed!

My, my, such good Christian principles you espouse!

[FEDUP]

Dear Mr. Trummel,
If we were such "rich landowners" we probably would have purchased homes in Arcadia, Glendora, South Pasadena, San Marino etc. not Azusa. We are hard working people just like everyone else. We would just like to come home to some peace and quiet just like you do. Can you imagine if you were to move in next to me and every day and ,especially on the weekends, I blasted my "rap" music all day long, and every day I took my dog to pollute your yard because he enjoys your yard better and he had been doing his business there for years and it was convenient for me. And if you complained I were to tell you " Hey I was here first, suck it or move"? How long do you think you would put up with that?
By the way if we were to be washed down the river, the gun club would go too don't you think?
As far as Christian principles go I don't think it's very Christian of you to wish a whole community be washed down so that a few people can enjoy their hobby.
We live here, these people come to enjoy their hobby at our expense, that is just not right. I'm sure they can practice their hobby somewhere other than our back yards. Maybe you can ask Duarte, La Verne, Upland, Glendora, Arcadia, Pasadena or any other community along the foothills if they would be able to go there?
By the way, Merry Christmas to you sir!

[SNIVELING DORK MCR]

Hey,
Gun clubber the handwritting on the wall. Looks like it time to fly south for the winter. Change is in the air. Change is a terrible thing especially when it is you that has to change. Suck it boys last dance is coming up. The hunters become the hunted Looks like you,the ducks,& strippers are going to need to find a new home (see attached).Looks like Azusa is the only city trying to clean-up See ya dont forget to write.
Booyakashal! Respect

Industry strip clubs targeted by city zoning laws

By Rodney Tanaka , Staff Writer

INDUSTRY -- The City Council is looking to shut down some local strip clubs, but owners won't leave without a fight.
The council finalized code amendments Thursday that could shut down three of the city's six strip clubs. The amendments go into effect in 30 days.

The clubs have two more years to conform to city codes or leave , Industry Mayor Dave Perez said.

One club, Miss Kitty's, might be able to meet regulations and remain in the city but the other two are too close to residential areas, city officials said.

The ordinance is invalid and unconstitutional, said Roger Jon Diamond, an attorney representing Hawaii Showgirls Theatre, one of the affected businesses.

The ordinance requires Hawaii Theatre to move, but there are no alternative sites available in the city, Diamond said.

The city cannot totally ban adult businesses, and a major factor in determining the number of clubs in a community should be market demand, he said.

His client also did not receive proper notice that the issue would be on the council agenda , Diamond said.

"It targets my client but doesn't give them an individualized hearing,' he said.

The council adopted an Adult Business Overlay Zone in 1996, which allowed strip clubs to operate in areas of the city.

Three clubs - Paradise Theatre, Spearmint Rhino and Exotica, all on Valley Boulevard - fall within the four zones and are in compliance.

But three other clubs - Miss Kitty's at 13079 E. Valley Blvd., Hawaii Showgirls Theatre at 15333 E. Gale Ave. and Sahara Theatre at 16025 E. Gale Ave. - are not within those zones and are considered non-conforming adult businesses.

These three businesses have operated out of compliance for eight years, and were given 20 years to meet criteria when the overlay zone was approved in 1996. But the amendment reduces that grace period in half, giving them until Dec. 31, 2006 to comply or leave. The businesses could also apply for an extension.

Of the three businesses targeted, Miss Kitty's might be able to meet the criteria for an Adult Business Overlay Zone, but owners there must apply, Industry Planning Director Mike Kissell said.

The other two, based on preliminary reviews, would not be able to meet requirements because they are too close to homes, he said.

Sahara Theatre is closed, but the property owner has expressed interest in reopening another adult business at the location, Kissell said.

Miss Kitty's owner Don Mazza, 73, said earlier this week that he planned to stay in Industry.

His family has owned the property since 1930, when his parents moved to the area during the Depression and bought a small restaurant. After Prohibition ended they obtained one of the first liquor licenses in the county, he said.

Miss Kitty's has been operating for about 10 years.

"I see where they're coming from, they're trying to do right by everybody,' Mazza said of Industry officials.

But he said he is upset that nobody in the city bothered to call him about these changes.

"I would really like to talk to them to see where we stand,' Mazza said.

Others want the strip clubs to leave.

The strip clubs on Gale Avenue are across the street from Hacienda Heights homes, and children pass by them while walking to school, said Michael Williams, president of the Hacienda Heights Improvement Association.

"We applaud the city of Industry for thinking about us neighboring communities,' he said.

-- Rodney Tanaka can be reached at [phone], Ext. 2230, or by e-mail at [e-mail] .

Duck farm becomes public haven

Museum, trails among plans for proposal

By Karen Rubin , Staff Writer

No one imagined that a fowl-smelling duck farm could be turned into a park with trails, a museum and a place to enjoy the sounds of birds and running water along the San Gabriel River.
But that is exactly what's happening.

The Woodland Duck Farm, once home to thousands of Long Island ducks, is in the first phase of a multimillion-dollar project that could turn the farm into an inviting oasis.

"It will be a place for the purification of the soul,' said Grace Beaton of the Whittier Area Audubon Society. "People need to get away from the hustle and bustle of the city. We can't go on with the hurly-burly of the city without getting away and resting your eyes and ears.'

It's a swan song, of sorts, that began in December 2001 when the nonprofit Trust for Public Land bought the 57-acre farm - part of it in Industry, the other part in the county area of Bassett - for $3.2 million.

Then, the San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy, a conservation group, bought the land for $4 million. The funding came from the state. Environmental groups began plans for renovating the property that lies east of the San Gabriel River (605) Freeway and the San Gabriel River.

The first phase of the development will be marked Dec. 17 at an opening event to celebrate the closing of escrow on the farm. It is expected to open in 2006. Once finished, the duck farm is slated to serve some 350,000 people.

"The need for parks is everywhere,' said Jeff Yann of Amigos De Los Rios, a group that builds parks. "A park along the river will let people know that there is a river again.'

The duck farm is part of a larger environmental endeavor involving 19 cities in the San Gabriel Valley that identified 150 areas along the river from Azusa to Long Beach that need parks habitat renovation.

These groups developed a master plan, a massive undertaking which rehabilitates the habitat and land along the San Gabriel River.

Some of the projects include landscaping, building of parks, bicycle and hiking trails, rebuilding the vegetation, the construction of education centers and connecting one trail to another. For instance, a path will be built to link the Puente Hills with the Whittier Narrows Nature Center.

"The duck farm is a link in the chain,' said Grace Allen, a volunteer at the Whittier Narrows Nature Center.

The public is invited to attend the celebration event from 10 a.m. to noon on Friday, Dec. 17, at the duck farm at 455 Rall St. in Industry.

-- Karen Rubin can be reached at [phone], Ext. 2109, or by e-mail at [e-mail] .

[HOSS]

Dear Mrs. Trummel,

[HOSS]

Dear Mrs.Trummel, Please don't let your husband confuse you! It's obvious that you have not been updated on the flood issue, ask your old man, I'm sure he will look into it for you, seeing as it that he put's his nose in everyone elses business! Oh, and as far as your comment on Christianity, ha. ;D It seems that your about as Christian as you are intelligent! :PWell Mrs. Trummel, it sounds like the green eyed monster is on your back and is biting pretty hard! Don't hate Mountain Cove residents jsut because you didnt make it. :'(I understand that as a bitter, little old lady, it's too late to start over and actually make something of your life! Understand something, the average residents in Mountain Cove are hard working, middle age, repectable people! So once again, please don't let your husbandbrainwashyou! P.S. Don't forget to knit some more scarves, it's getting cold!

[McLite]

Guest-HOSS said:

Dear Mrs.Trummel, Please don't let your husband confuse you! ....

..... ask your old man, I'm sure he will look into it for you, seeing as it that he put's his nose in everyone elses business......

......I understand that as a bitter, little old lady, it's too late to start over and actually make something of your life! .....

.....please don't let your husband brainwash you! ...... .....Don't forget to knit some more scarves, it's getting cold!

Hoss, just curious...

All these cryptic references to a "Mrs." Tummel and "husband" and "brainwashing" ... well.... what on earth are you talking about?

I don't see anything about a Mr. / Mrs. - ??

I'm on the same side of the issue as you (maybe not as passionate about it), but your post seems like it's implying something (something strange, actually) that pretty much isn't there.

[mwtrummel]

Guest-FEDUP said:

By the way if we were to be washed down the river, the gun club would go too don't you think?

It wasn't back in '69-70. The Lord works in strange ways!

Guest-FEDUP said:

As far as Christian principles go I don't think it's very Christian of you to wish a whole community be washed down so that a few people can enjoy their hobby.

You've missed something here buddy: I never, ever, not once , "wished you be washed down the river". I simply stated this: "BTW, are any of you Mountain Cove-ers aware of what happened to your land during the 1969-70 rains? I'll give you a hint: if we have rain like that again, you won't have to worry about your precious property values in Azusa as your houses will be newly relocated down in Long Beach (were there's also a shooting range. Kind of ironic, eh?)"\. How you could construe that as a wish on my part is beyond me. I'll try clarifying my original statement for you:

Back in the big rainstorms of '69-70 the entire riverbed was covered by a giant torrent of water, mud and giant boulders from bank to bank (that includes your current land). After the rains were finally over, there was so much mud and debris washed down stream that the entire road to the Evil Gun Club was covered to a depth of 15 feet. It was surreal, the telephone poles along the road were only about 10 feet high and there were boulders the size of cars that had been washed downstream by the force of the water. If you had seen it, it would be something you'd never forget. I did see it, first hand, and when they first started moving earth for your houses, I was absolutely flabbergasted that someone would allow a housing project to be built on a flood plain. I just can't believe that none of you know about this. I'd sure research the history of a house I was thinking about buying if it was positioned right next to a river. My comment about your houses was not made to wish you ill will, it was merely pointing out that there are much more important things for you guys to worry about than a non-Politically Correct Gun Club a mile away.

[HOSS]

Dear McLite, People react to different subject matters in different ways. I am sure Mrs.Trummel will understand exactly what I'm saying.Thank you for your support

[mwtrummel]

Guest-HOSS said:

Dear Mrs. Trummel,

"Mrs. Trummel"?

I'm not quite sure where you're coming from, but the "Mrs. Trummel" happens to have grown up about 200 feet away from me in Duarte and she feels the same way as I do about this Mtn Cove situation. We lived as close to the Evil Gun Club as you guys do and it never bothered us. No one in our neighborhood ever thought of protesting or suing to get the gun club shut down. Of course society was a bit less litigious back then..

[Fed up]

Trummel
Let me put it this way, none of us knows when and where death will find us. If it's God's will for the community to get washed away so be it. Although I think he would think twice because there are a lot of wonderful, gifted and giving people living there. However, we all have to go sometime, and I just want to have a decent quality of life till then. It's one thing for your hobby to come under attack but it's an entirely different thing for your home and family to come under attack. I'm sure you can understand that. This is where we live and raise our children not just where we visit for a while to have fun. We are a tight bunch of neighbors (kind of like it used to be many years ago) and will protect our homes and our country if we have to.