Election Forum In The Lodge - Thur., 1/27, 7pm-9pm

[barb]

I read Urials website www.maciasformayor.com and was able to read more about him as a person and his interest, experience etc. I like that he is very transparent, I feel like I can almost ask him any question.

Does anyone know any history on Diane except that she has served on council for 11 years. What is her education, where did she graduate from or past work history?

A teacher of mine once said, "I would rather have a person without experience who is teachable and open-minded than a person with years of experience who is set in their ways and unteachable because they know it all."

Yes, Diane has 11 years of experiece, but she seems very set in her ways and is not very open-minded. Unlike Macias who may not have the experince of a council member but is very open-minded and not afraid of change. He, seems like the type of person who will admit his mistakes and learn from them, not cover them up.

[No longer undecided]

After this weekend, I've been practically chased by Diane Chagnon toward supporting Uriel Macias. This is the experience I heard about from a close friend.

She called me and told me Chagnon was going door to door in her area and came to her house. Chagnon was handing out her information (and flower seeds? - - I know, it's some sort of gimmick). She was also handing out pamphlets for Joe Rocha for council. My friend asked her if Rocha supported her, and Chagnon said to the effect that Rocha had made no public endorsement, but ''you can guess who.'' She was evidently implying that Rocha supported her, but I know and even my friend knew that's not true at all, that Rocha actually supports Macias.

These games are so ridiculous! Stanford did that same thing four years ago, passing around Rocha's stuff with his own and implying they were running together when it was not true. I know Joe Rocha, and of course I know he is beloved. I detest that Chagnon use and exploit his popularity this way.

It gets better. My friend already had a Bob Donnelson sign in her yard. She was previously warned by one of Donnelson's campaigners that Chagnon was going around implying that Donnelson is also teaming with her - - which isn't true either! Well that's what she was told by Chagnon too. She politely declined her putting up a yard sign.

I think what I've learned from this is that Chagnon thinks none of us really hear what's going on or that we're all not as smart as she is - - so she can get away with this kind of bologna. Call me silly, but I don't take kindly to being underestimated or patronized by any politician.

My friend said that her family decided to support Macias for mayor based on that experience. After hearing about it myself, I've made up my mind to do the same.

[Speaking personally]

Sadly, I'm not surprised anymore. The irony is that Diane Chagnon is showing herself to be more and more like her longtime rival, the current mayor Christina Madrid. From my observation, it's as if Uriel Macias's popularity has really caught her and her supporters off guard. Their reaction is becoming overzealous and obsessed with winning, and it's starting to become scary.

I have a bit of a confession in that my family and hers (the Moritzes) are well acquainted. Nice enough on the surface, but I wouldn't say deeply close. Unfortunately, it appears Diane took for granted that I would support her as mayor. I ended up with a campaign sign in my yard after coming home from work. No one in my house consented to it. I did take it down.

I found out this also happened to two mutual friends. Even though they support Uriel Macias, they however don't want to take Chagnon's sign down because they don't wish to offend her. One of them feels like her family will be in some way socially blackmailed (they've opposed her on issues before and have apparently taken some heat for it). I don't feel the same way. If the Moritzes or the Hardisons for that matter want to hate me for putting a Macias sign in my yard, then that's their perrogative. It's precisely that kind of exclusionary attitude that to me disqualifies Chagnon from being mayor. I'd hate to think she would risk losing my or anyone else's respect in order to become mayor, but I'd accept it.

Unfortunately she's already succeeding in losing my respect. I also heard that a man notorious for tearing down election signs many, many years (his name I won't mention out of respect for his privacy), is at it again...... this time on behalf of Diane. He is apparently going around to businesses and homes, stealing Macias lawn signs (I know personally of one incident), and if caught (as in the incident I directly know about) characterizes Uriel Macias as 'evil' and tries to convince the people to change their minds. I understand that Diane's response is that she can't be held responsible for what other people choose to do for her. That sort of passive, hands-off reaction is not one I would expect from someone wishing to be mayor.

I also received one of those pro-Chagnon campaign phone calls the other post mentioned. Same lines given to me. I go by that if something doesn't make sense, it isn't true. So when I was told I should be suspicious of Uriel Macias because he's going from a paid city position (Treasurer) to an unpaid one (mayor), I laughed out loud for two reasons: (1) Even if that were true, there would be no reason to be 'suspicious' in someone 'not' doing something for money. It's ludicrous to think that. (2) The caller had no idea what he was talking about. City Treasurer is an elected position just like mayor and 'both' positions do have a paid salary. (It's interesting to note that the mayor's is one-third the amount of the Treasurer's because the Treasurer's is in fact literally more time consuming). It goes to show that her campaign is grasping to say something negative about Macias, but it's hard to say anything bad about him. The truth is that everything he's done is quite good, and his ethics and demeanor have been beyond reproach. I'm sorry but the same can't be said for Diane.

I admit I feel some discomfort in being caught in the middle (she'll be aware of my position just from the yard sign situation), but not so much that I would go against my convictions. I don't share our friends fearful sentiment to that extent; it's not a social mafia, and even though I know some people are, I've never felt particularly intimidated by Diane.

Trust is probably the biggest issue in who we consider to represent us. Actions (or lack of actions) speak volumes...... I think everyone should look very closely at what's going on, really see the 'person' they are considering, and just vote your conscience.

[Bill]

Guest-Speaking said:

Trust is probably the biggest issue in who we consider to represent us. Actions (or lack of actions) speak volumes...... I think everyone should look very closely at what's going on, really see the 'person' they are considering, and just vote your conscience.

That's a good point, but precisely why I have trouble considering Uriel thus far. He seems like a great guy and very energetic. My question is can I trust him to consistently make key decisions week after week when in the public's eye. Not only in the public eye, but the focal point of the public's eye. Will he make decisions that consistently promote responsible, but enthusiastic development - even those decisions are unpopular for some? That's probably easier said than done. And so far, it seems of the two, Diane may have the background to negotiate those rocky roads. Uriel's experience while exemplory has been largely behind the scenes. Thanks for sharing your personal experiences.

-Bill

[John]

I still have a lot of questions about Macias and Chagnon. I'm hoping that more of these questions will be answered at the forum in the civic auditorium on the Thrusday, the 17th.

I have seen Diane at the council meetings, utility meetings, and even meetings in Mountain Cove to know that she would make a professional Mayor. I realize that people are spreading rumors, and as far as I'm concerned, that is all they are. This city has a history of running peoples name through the mud and it looks like there are people that want to do that with Diane. I don't think that she deserves that. She has done a lot for this city.

I have not decide whether I'm going to vote for Macias or Diane, but this mud slinging is not really helping me to decide either. For example, they say that Diane took special interest money from Vulcan. Making it sound as if she is in the pocket of the corporation. I personally looked into it further and discovered that the $750 donation was from Vulcan employees and not the corporation. The company has a policy against donating to political campaigns. The Vulcan employees stated that they gave the money to Diane because she supported business. They also found it strange that anyone would think that you could buy a politician for such a small donation. If that were the case, I would buy her myself.

[its a campaign not a cult]

Sorry but talk about grasping at straws. In my opinion, what you're saying makes no sense. You question someone's trust because he was actually working (behind the scenes - as you call it) instead of spending the last four years campaigning or publicizing himself? Yet you make NO question of his opponent's ruthless behaviors? The least I can say is that we obviously have different interpretations of what trust is.

I've heard Changnon's camp try to attack Uriel for not being AS loudly supportive about Monrovia Nursery as she was. Is that the angle you're leaning for? Because even I know it's totally unethical for a City Treasurer, as it'd be for the City Clerk, to use their position to make a statement on that. Changnon campaign knows that, and if Mr. Macias had used his position to make political statements, mark my words they'd be attacking him for that instead.

I figure Diane's supporters must be true believers because many of them don't seem to have any problem with her and-or her ''staff'' playing dirty pool to win the election. This whole vote your conscience theory is meaningless if you're going to stop at nothing to rationalize your decision. But what the heck, you're entitled to do that if you want.

[John]

I don't know what is going on all over the city. If there is mud slinging on Diane's side, that should stop as well. All that I know of is the mud slinging on this board. And that has been directed on Diane.

At least let me and the other residents hear from them at the Forum.

[oops]

Sorry that previous post was in response to Bill.

But in response to John, the Vulcan thing was asked at our forum to Changnon and she responded. It wasn't really a rumor being spread, it's a fact. And Vulcan's employee association, I wouldn't exactly call it non-associated from Vulcan. Many businesses do make campaign contributions this way.

Macias was also offered a number of special interest contributions including from the gun club, but refused to take them he said because he wanted to be held accountable to the residents not to them. And the whole sign thing? It also happened to my neighbor right here in the cove. He left it up so I assume he supports Changnon, but he thought it was funny because he never asked for it either.

[Election watcher]

I also heard about the person who was mentioned in an earlier post who goes around removing Uriel's signs. It seems the Chagnon campaign must be scared that people are going to vote according to how many signs are up from her. I think people are more intelligent than that. She should be more afraid of how stiff and controlled by Vulcan she comes across. Uriel has my vote.

[to John]

John, if bad things are going on, they're never going to stop if no one talks about it or takes a stand. You can't expect people to be quiet about things when they're upset. I don't take this as mudslinging, as it doesn't rise to the level of being sensational or selacious. On the other hand, it is certainly something to be concerned about and aware of.

And of course you don't have to make any part of your decision based on this discussion. How you decide things is up to you. You mentioned to 'let you hear at the forum.' With all due respect, surely nothing here is going to prevent you or me from doing that. But if you feel it could and want not to be affected, to be frank you should avoid the thread because most likely such things are going to be discussed here.

[Who got the gun club mailer]

A pamphlet supporting the gun club got sent out yesterday.... It gives some recommendations on the election. But get this, it actually tells you who NOT to vote for too! It says because they took a stand against the gun club, that you should not vote for Bob Donnellson, Joe Rocha or Angel Carillo for council, and NOT to vote for Uriel Macias for mayor.

What's funny is that, don't they know this flier practically BEGS for me and probably everyone else in Azusa to vote FOR these people?

[mcoph]

How funny. I was thinking they were avoiding Mountain Cove because I heard about it, but I didn't get one at my house. Maybe you got yours by mistake!

[Bob Donnelson]

I just wanted to respond to the new gun club flier that was sent out on Monday. My family received two of these fliers, one was addressed to me. I guess that want me to vote against myself. I think its a real shame that all of these outside interests are trying to tell us Azusans' how we should live, and what is good for us. I'm really getting tired of them wrapping themselves in the flag, and claiming that we are trying to destroy the local, state and federal police agencies, and undermining the military and the national security by not allowing this gun club to operate. Do they really feel that our world will end with this gun club? Or, are the afraid of the inconvience of having to travel farther to a more appropriate location? This gun club adds nothing to the city, I would guess that the vast majority of the residents, have never been there, and do not use the facility for any type of recreation. I hope that most Azusa voters are smart enough to realize that our city is more important to us, than we are to the members of this club that come from all over southern California. Don't let your neighbors think that this is a non-issue, or that it has finally been decided by the City Council's vote. The gun club has just now begun to fight. I apologize for taking up your time, I've tried to stay off the individual chat rooms, I feel they should be free from the political BS. But this group of outsiders has started to go to far. I ask, all Azusans', no matter where you live, north side, south side etc, to join with you fellow residents, and fight this, for the good of all of us.

[thanks]

Mr. Donnelson, I think it's safe to say that your thoughts are welcome here. Mr. Macias has shared his here too. I want to thank you, Macias, Mr. Rocha, and Mr. Carrillo for all taking a clear position on the gun club and on other issues. It's nice to know for certain where candidates stand.

[Bill]

John,

I think your point about mud-slinging is a good one. We need to look at the whole picture, evaluate what options are on the table for Azusa going forward, and make our decisions from there.

The upcoming forums should go a long way in helping us all to form opinions.

-Bill

[well]

I agree yes the forum is most important, because the real issues will get discussed. But as for the mud you mentioned. Since it's becoming pretty evident to more & more people that a certain candidate and her campaigners are actually the ones stirring the dirt with the water? .... To me, that kind of behavior itself is a relevant issue too. Just because you try to present yourself one way on the surface doesn't mean it's ok to behave badly behind the scenes just to get something you want.

[Voter]

I didn't get the gun club mailer but I have heard of some who did. You are right, this mailer is actually going to backfire on them( I hope). Afterall it's the residents of Azusa who are going to vote on this election not the residents of all the cities who shoot there. We should definetely vote for the candidates who have listened to the voice of their constituents not special interests. As far as the other comments about what is being said on this thread... I think people are just expressing their experiences and feelings about the candidates and that's O.K. as long as it's not made up stuff and so far nothing sounds made up to me. I think people are smart enough to distingues between fact and fiction. Most everything I have seen here so far was publicly stated at one of the forums or someone's opinion or personal experience. If what was stated by a candidate or what was done by them or their committees isn't particularly flattering to them then they need to be responsible for that.
By the way Mr. Donnelson thanks for your intelligent comments... you can count on my vote! ;D

[Watchful Eye]

I see that I'm not alone with having a Chagnon Lawn sign appear on my property. What frost my pipes, is that her campaign staff or her did not have the decency to knock on my door and let me know they were installing it. I have decided to vote for Uriel Macias instead. However, I will leave this sign in my yard until the election, so it will not be obvious to my neighbors I have changed my mind. I'm also irritated by Chagnon's obnoxious phone banking staff, who actually get on my nerves more than telemarketers. If this wasn't enough, she now has an old geezer driving around town removing Uriel Macias' signs. This goes to show how low she will go to win the race for mayor. Diane, you should be ashamed of yourself, in 2007 I hope you decide to run for a new office we can create for you. DIANE FOR DOG CATCHER IN 2007!

[how convenient]

So the gun club wants us not to vote for Macias, but takes no stand against Chagnon? It's no wonder. How strange that she at the very last minute, after months and months of debate, suddenly came up with a reason to keep herself from voting on the gun club at all....

She says she has a conflict of interest because she might, maybe, possibly not-for-sure-but-perhaps one day inherit a property that's in some vague undisclosed proximity to the gun club? Wow, that's a load if I ever heard one. How can that make any sense? Since she CURRENTLY owns and lives on a real property that's a hop, skip, and a jump from Monrovia Nursery yet she didn't even slightly hesitate to cast her vote on that.

Let's just say I'm going to vote for the candidates who are being consistent and clearly speaking their truth.... not the ones doing a political song and dance, or coming up with an out of this world excuse every time they're confronted with a problem or issue.

[Correction]

PLEASE, DO NOT take everything you read here serviously. There are supporters on both sides that are a little over zealous, to put it lightly. Information is being exagerated, and some of it is totally incorrect.

Let me give you one example, Diane voed against the gun club. In fact, all 5 council members voted against the gun club. There was a section of the new code that Diane as well as the Mayor did not vot on, but it was not the gun club issue. They did this so to not allow any possibly legal problems. Eugene Moses wrote a story in his local paper about the gun club, and incorrectly stated that only 3 city council members voted on the gun club issue. My guess is that the gun club members read that and assumed it to be true, even though many of them were at the city council meeting. Shows how much the bun club members pay attention to what is going on and why. But that is another story.

As for this message board, there are Macias supporters that attack any good comment about Diane within 15 to 30 minutes afer someone makes a comment. All that you need to do is look at the dates and times of the above posts, and see that it is true. I'm sure that this post will be attacked as well, however, they will may want to consider waiting a little longer in order to prove me wrong. I do not see Diane's supporters attacking Macias on this board.

I JUST WANT TO RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE TAKE THESE POSTS ABOUT THE ELECTION WITH A GRAIN OF SALT AND GO TO THE FORUM ON THE 17th. If you can't make that, make sure to watch it on tv if you have cable. I think that it can be watched on channel 55.

[movie goer]

uriel macias vs diane chagnon
thursday 630.. city hall
... it sounds like damn monster movie!!!

[cool raul]

it just seem that Uriel Macias is more in touch with community.. is well loved in the community... i think Mr. Macias is what best for azusa.... I just cant trust diane..

[Correction to Correction]

Excuse me, but your post is the one who is totally incorrect, "correction." The section of the code you're referring to is the section that directly relates to the gun club property. It was abstained by Chagnon and Madrid; they did not vote on the gun club component.

The gun club mailer is the most ugly, viscious piece of propaganda I've ever seen in a local election. ''Correction,'' you assert that the gun club's flyer is wreckless and misinformed in who it attacks. I think it's terrible, but I wouldn't call it anything less than a carefully crafted, well-thought-out evil piece of garbage. We both know that Diane Chagnon was left out of the gun club's targat for a reason.

I'll agree with your comment about misinformation, though. The gun club is not the only one playing the propaganda game. The Tribune certainly gave it to me just now. It has an article about the election.... Out of nowhere it introduces Uriel Macias as having ''the backing of Madrid.'' That's just crap. I can't say I'm floored that the Tribune is going to help Diane perpetuate the Macias-is-a-Madrid-puppet conspiracy theory. I think I know exactly whom from Diane's camp is spreading that. It's so ridiculous, it's actually being used to discredit Macias. I'm very sure Macias will be getting Madrid's vote at the polls (I doubt her vote will go to Diane), but ''backing?'' Sorry, Trib, I happen to know better: she's not a part of nor is she providing ANYTHING to his campaign.

And yes I do think my post is going to come within several minutes of yours, ''Correction.'' I suppose your suggestion is that I and others are laying in wait to respond to you, instead of just getting up in the morning, having somc cofffee, checking e-mail, and so-on. And no I'm not going to ''wait longer'' to ''prove you wrong'' - there's nothing to prove. (Please leave the whole reverse psychology thing to the pros.) Really, I think you shouldn't be trying to curb or dismiss people's opinions here.

I certainly agree with you about the forum, though. I'm not saying we're guaranteed to get what we want out of it. The forum here at the lodge was very well done, but the previous Chamber of Commerce forum at city hall had a rather stale format. The chamber is putting on the one tomorrow night, hopefully it will be a little better.

[mcoph]

I don't care if Tribune printed it in blood (and I feel that way in general about the Tribune), I think people are very much over the whole Madrid / ''Uriel is a pawn'' thing. That came out so early.... it's already so old & tired, and is nonsense on so many levels. They share almost none of the same positions on issues... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the rumor mill isn't happening. I'm aware that a few of Chagnon's supporters have been spreading that as a wedge to divide people, and will probably keep trying. But I think things are becoming so clear by now that people know better and it isn't working.

[Voter]

I really think that Madrid is looking to get on with her life and
her new job. I don't think she will be that involved in what the new city council does after the election. I think she has had her fill and other than having an opinnion or comment I really don't think she will have that much influence on whomever takes her spot.

[Sandra]

On Sunday February 27th some of my neighbors, my husband and I will be hosting a receptions for city council member Joe Rocha and Bob Donnelson. This event will take place at the MC Lodge at 1:30 P.M. Refreshments will be served.
Also, since there have been so many requests for another MC
forum we are considering inviting the Mayoral candidates for a short, more in depth debate right after the Rocha/Donnelson reception.
This is still in the planning stages as the Mayoral candidates l remain to be contacted to see their availability and desire to participate.
Hope to see you there on the 27th! ;D

[money]

Uriel Macias $3000 in campaign contributions.
Diane Chagnon over $16,000 in her campaign acoount
where is she getting her money?

[interests]

It doesn't matter to me. She can spend all the money she wants. I'm still voting for Macias.

[Dan]

TEXTJANE YOU IGNORANT SLUT!

[COOL RAUL]

years and take side with Diane Chagnon.. I have been here over 35 yrs and everything is still the same. She tries to take credit for putting Susanne Avila in charge of Azusa Preservation committe when she was the one that wanted her out.. Diane Also says that she has experience but what is experience if you dont have results..
How funny is it when our city buys a piece of land for over 2 million dollars and sells it to someone(hennessey) for well under price ... whats also funny is that we did not even look at other bidders. Thanks alot Diane!!!!
MACIAS WILL DONATE ALL HIS MONEY TO LOCAL CHARITIES... HE IS A GREAT LEADER !!!!!
THIS IS THE TYPE OF LEADERSHIP WE NEVER HAD HERE IN AZUSA!!!
MACIAS YOU HAVE MY VOTE AND SEEMS LIKE OTHERS ARE NOTICING TO!!!